How Strength-Based Education & Community Transforms the Lives of Neurodivergent and 2e Students
When I first met Sam Young, the head of school at Young Scholars Academy, I was blown away by his passion for empowering neurodivergent and twice-exceptional (2e) students and the amazing community he has built.
I had the pleasure of interviewing Sam on my podcast, From Stuck to Started. Our conversation dives into what it means to be “twice-exceptional,” the challenges neurodivergent students face, and how community and leaning into strengths builds confidence and sets students up for success.
This is a great conversation for educators, parents, neurodivergent adults, and anyone who’s passionate about supporting unique learners.
As an executive function & ADHD coach, I’ve worked with many bright, creative adults who didn’t have access to the resources or understanding they needed when they were younger. My conversation with Sam was a powerful reminder of how crucial it is to recognize and nurture the unique strengths of young students.
What is Twice-Exceptional (2e)?
Twice-exceptional, often abbreviated as 2e, refers to individuals who are both gifted in one or more areas and face significant challenges, such as learning disabilities, ADHD, autism, or other neurodivergent traits. This duality creates a unique profile where exceptional strengths coexist with struggles, often causing these students to feel misunderstood or unsupported.
Sam explains, “If you picture a bell curve, a twice-exceptional individual is someone who has a foot on both sides. We typically think of someone who is two standard deviations in one direction ‘gifted’ and in the other direction learning differences or slower processing. And a twice exceptional individual really challenges that bifurcation because they are presently both: gifted or strong in certain areas and they are exceptionally struggling.”
A 2e student might look like a really bright kid with a high IQ and autism or a student who is really creative and curious, and also has ADHD, auditory processing, or dyslexia.
By focusing on strengths rather than deficits, programs like Young Scholars Academy help 2e students unlock their full potential.
The Role of Strengths-Based Education
At Young Scholars Academy, education is built around the idea that students learn best when they engage with their passions. Strength-based education focuses on nurturing what students do well, rather than fixating on their struggles. This approach not only builds confidence but also teaches essential executive functioning skills in a way that feels relevant and exciting.
For example:
Dungeons & Dragons campaigns teach teamwork, strategic thinking, and collaboration.
Passion-based projects help students practice planning, organizing, and breaking tasks into manageable steps.
Social clubs create opportunities for students to build friendships and develop communication skills in a supportive environment.
For students at Young Scholars Academy, the journey is as impactful as the destination. While some students join for an hour a day and others for five, the goal remains the same: to leave with friendships, unwavering confidence, and a vision for their future.
Sam highlights one of the cornerstone classes, Adulting and Thriving, where students explore topics like:
Defining their “why” through deep ideation.
Developing task management systems to achieve goals.
Learning life skills, from managing finances to building social connections.
The Power of Doing Things Differently
Traditional academia often penalizes students for taking unconventional paths, even though history celebrates innovators and explorers for finding new ways to achieve goals.
This mindset is why Young Scholars Academy celebrates neurodivergent students’ unique approaches. Sam notes that success looks different for everyone, and empowering students to find their own “how” is central to the program’s philosophy.
The Importance of Community for Neurodivergent Students
For many neurodivergent and 2e students, traditional academic environments can feel isolating. Finding a community of peers who “get” them is often life-changing.
Young Scholars Academy fosters this sense of belonging by creating spaces where students can connect over shared interests and experiences. Sam recalls a student who, after joining a social club, exclaimed, “I think I made my first friend today.” Moments like these show how vital connection is for emotional and social growth.
What Comes After Young Scholars Academy?
Graduates of Young Scholars Academy leave with more than just academic skills. They walk away with:
A Strong Community: Friendships and connections with peers who understand and support them.
Unshakable Confidence: A belief in their abilities, cultivated through a strengths-focused approach.
A Clear Vision: Whether it’s pursuing higher education, entering the workforce, or taking a gap year, students leave with a direction aligned to their unique strengths and passions.
Strength-Based Exploration for Everyone
When asked about his vision for the future, Sam dreams of a world where everyone—students and adults alike—has the opportunity to pursue their passions without judgment. He emphasizes the importance of dedicating time each day to do what lights you up.
"One of our founding moms, very first year, coined this term called the YSA glow. And she said, anytime her son Simon, takes a class, he's euphoric for 24 hours… He's doing what he loves…And it’s just the most affirming thing.” – Sam Young
This daily practice of strength-based exploration not only fosters personal growth but also nurtures a sense of fulfillment that extends beyond academics.
Connect with Sam Young and Young Scholars Academy
If you’re a parent looking to support your 2e or neurodivergent child learn more about Young Scholars Academy:
Website: https://youngscholarsacademy.org/
Facebook: Young Scholars Academy
Instagram: @youngscholarsacademy
BONUS: Save 10% on all classes when you use my code YSALOVELL10
I only endorse and promote resources, programs, and tools I personally believe in. I’ve attended YSA’s open house and seen first hand the amazing community Sam has built. Thanks for being part of my podcast community & talk again soon!
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Sarah Lovell (00:00)
added bonus. So I am so excited today to welcome Sam Young on the podcast. Sam is the head of school at Young Scholars Academy, which is a virtual enrichment program that empowers gifted, twice exceptional and neurodivergent students. And I had the pleasure of attending an open house on Zoom a few months ago, and it was truly this amazing, energizing community.
of the kindest, most welcoming students, families, mentors, and of course, Sam. So thank you so much for being on the podcast today. See you.
Mr. Sam (00:40)
Thank you, Sarah. And I want to just say to everyone in your audience, it's such a testament to your character that we meet and you come to an event that was like an hour long and you stayed. And I just think you're the real deal. So thank you for coming to that open house and hanging out.
Sarah Lovell (00:55)
Thank you so much. Yeah, it was truly, was like, what a great way to get to experience the community. I mean, we've been on Zoom, many of us, since 2020. And so even running my business on Zoom, I was like, oh, I wonder what a enrichment program, like a community on Zoom is going to look and feel like. And it was more than what I ever could have imagined. Like having such a full Zoom room of
students and families and like seeing people talk about the amazing community that you have. It was just a different experience than what like the typical Zoom is. So yeah, yeah. And I have to just share both. I was gonna just say before we jump in and we hear more about your program, I just have to share how we met for people listening because it is the best. So Sam and I originally connected on Instagram like.
Mr. Sam (01:33)
Thank you.
Sarah Lovell (01:51)
probably sometime around 2020. And I like have a vague memory of us like maybe chatting in the DMs or on comments on a post or something. But then it was like, you know, it's Instagram, it's the internet. you know, that was kind of it. Distractions, yeah. And so, but we cross paths in real life at the International ADHD Conference in Anaheim, California. And Sam.
Mr. Sam (02:04)
distractions.
Sarah Lovell (02:18)
like basically flat tired me, like stepped on the back of my shoe. And we had this moment of like, it's okay, don't worry. Like, but you were like, wait, I think I recognize you.
Mr. Sam (02:29)
It was almost like, and I say this as like a married man's with no romantic anything, but it was almost like a 90s rom-com where it's like, I knock your books over, you know what mean?
Sarah Lovell (02:39)
It
truly was, it truly was. And so we had this like, wait, how do we know each other? And so we were trying to like, you know, in real time, figure that out. And we figured out it was Instagram, which was just surreal to me. Like I was like, my gosh, that we've connected on Instagram now we're meeting in real life. Yes, yeah. But it like opened up this conversation. And like, that's how I reconnected with you to learn even more about Young Scholars Academy and you know,
Mr. Sam (02:57)
I'm stepping on your feet.
Sarah Lovell (03:08)
We share a parallel world in supporting neurodivergent folks and talking about executive functioning and all the strengths-based work. So it was, I'm so glad you stepped on my shoe that day. That was, yeah.
Mr. Sam (03:19)
Me too. That was such a trip. I
remember thinking like, yeah, it was just the context, right? You're like, I've seen this person. know, I know, I know this person. think we each threw throwing out like, do you, are you part of this? Or, know, it couldn't quite put our fingers on it.
Sarah Lovell (03:33)
Yep,
yeah, yeah. So small internet world, small real world. So I'm really, really glad that we're connected. So for anyone who's listening and isn't familiar with the term twice exceptional, can we start there? What is twice exceptional and how does it connect to the program that you've put together?
Mr. Sam (03:42)
Me too.
Yeah, so this is a term that is, if you don't know this term, you know, no shame, because most people don't. think it's sort of a, it's not necessarily a newer term, but it's not really entered the vernacular yet. And it is, and that's really exciting. I often joke that I can retire when I tell people what I do and they understand it right away. And until then I cannot. So for people that are listening, I'm gonna use some visuals, but I'll describe them. So twice exceptional, if you picture a bell curve, right? If you're like a bell curve on
a twice exceptional individual is someone who kind of has a foot on both sides. We typically think of someone who is maybe two standard deviations over a gifted or maybe a couple standard deviations over in like the learning difference, maybe slower processing. And a twice exceptional individual like really challenges that bifurcation because they are presently both. They're exceptionally gifted or strong or strength areas. And then they're exceptionally struggling.
That could look like a really bright kid with a high IQ and autism or a kiddo who's like really creative and curious and has ADHD or auditory processing or dyslexia. So it's the co-occurrence of these two exceptionalities, which is where the name comes from, exceptional strengths and exceptional struggles.
Sarah Lovell (05:13)
is such a concise, wonderful description. Because yeah, to your point, like, if people are familiar with the term, that's great. They're probably in your world, in your community. But it's nice to know that there's new ways of describing or maybe not a new way, but giving language for people's experiences because I think that's really powerful.
Mr. Sam (05:34)
Just to go back in history, so my mentor, Dr. Susan Baum, was one of the people who was part of the coining of the term. And she originally wrote a book, which we don't really use this language anymore, but I think it's really helpful. It was called Gifted and Learning Disabled. And I think that sums it up in a way that people can understand. We don't actually prefer to learn differences and so forth. But I think that describes it in a way. And just to kind of put an example, think of like a Richard
Branson's right someone who's clearly a know, successful entrepreneur and has great pros and also has dyslexia or Like a Simone Biles right who has ADHD and is obviously a world-class gymnast Greta Thunberg, right Albert Einstein you can go on into these spiky high highs and low lows
Sarah Lovell (06:19)
Well, and I'm guessing these are students who have fallen through the cracks because they don't fall into what I'll use like the typical student path of because they're in either end of this bell curve, both ends of the bell curve, they're maybe showing up to class in a different way and experiencing different challenges.
Mr. Sam (06:40)
Yeah, you know, these are students who often get pushed down rather than picked up. And unfortunately, much of the traditional educational system is focused on deficits, right? So if you have a student who is really bright and is bored, we might see that as a behavior issue or a learning difference and therefore want to remediate that. Let's say you have a really spiky profile kid who's like three years ahead in math.
and isn't turning in any English homework. Like there's a classic case of, well, this smart kid's lazy, or they just are lazy, right? And so unfortunately, we end up looking at the deficit rather than the strength.
Sarah Lovell (07:22)
And I know Young Scholars Academy is a strength-based program. So how did this kind of come to be? Because I know it fills this gap that's missing in traditional education.
Mr. Sam (07:34)
Yeah, and I should say, you know, I think it's really easy to say like the education system, right? Like that's an easy pin cushion. It's a challenge, right? If you have a class with 30, 40 kids in a classroom, like, yeah, you're going to look for the, as the proverb, you know, the nail that sticks out, right? You're going to look for things. So those are going to scream to you in your face. A lot of these kids have, and I think before I answer your question,
Sarah Lovell (07:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (08:00)
There's a term that's used a lot in the autistic community, but it's also used in the 2E community, which is masking. And in this case, it's slightly different from the way that it's used in the autistic community. But masking can be, again, when you have someone with these two exceptionalities, it can be when the strength is actually covered by the struggle. So again, someone who's like Simone Biles, right? I wasn't there in school, but maybe she struggled and obviously did well in the gym. But you don't see that.
intelligence in the English class, right, or the history class. So one is when the struggle covers the strength. The other is when the strength can cover the struggle. This would be a student who maybe gets admitted into an AP class and then is falling apart because they can't keep up with production, right? We know they're bright, but what's going on? And that's where you come in, Sarah, because all the executive functions stuff, both for teachers understanding that and for kids understanding it themselves.
Sarah Lovell (08:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (08:57)
And then the third one is arguably the most difficult of all, which is when the two kind of reverberate at the same frequency and we can't quite tell a student might appear like middle of the road when in fact they have both strengths and struggles that are happening. So I think it's an important kind of way to go into answering your question. I promise I'm gonna answer it now. Is that okay?
Sarah Lovell (09:16)
Yeah, no.
Yeah, that's a great one. That's like such a nice visual to have the different ways that the challenges and strengths can can impact each other and how that shows up. And yes, to my comment on the school system, I give teachers so much credit for the system that they're working in, the challenges that they have in the traditional setting and that these you know, it's hard when you have a classroom of 30 students and metrics that teachers need to hit. So yes, I just want to go backtrack on my comment for the
Mr. Sam (09:45)
I was I wasn't replying to you. I was replying
to me because I was the one that first said the system right and I think it's easy to do.
Sarah Lovell (09:48)
Yeah, no.
Yeah, well, no. And I mean, that's how many families traditional going through that traditional education system like are working through a literal system. So yeah, so think even your description there is so helpful for me as an executive function coach to visualize strengths, covering challenges, challenges, covering strengths, and then this like when they meet each other equally, that somebody it like that it is a form of masking. So yeah, I really appreciate those visuals.
Mr. Sam (10:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. So and to answer the original question before I went off on a little tangent, which of course never happens in neurodiversity type podcasts, the foundation for Young Scholars Academy, like most people don't trip and fall into these fields, right? So I very much was the profile when I was in second grade, I was first screen for ADHD and then was thought to have ADHD in fourth grade. My dad had dyslexia and was very much 2E.
and I probably have undiagnosed dyslexia too. So I very much had the journey that I'm talking about where I had like these leadership skills and I could do all these things, but a lot of times they weren't relevant in the classroom. And I ended up feeling like pretty stupid. I had slow processing speed. I'm again, probably undiagnosed dyslexia and ADHD. So I was always like, again, in second grade, my desk was like glued to the teacher's desk and.
my whole life I was basically like that, you know, to the principal and so forth. And it wasn't until I was older that people started to kind of like prop me up and believe in me and say really nice things about, you know, how I could lead people or I could articulate myself in a way that people could follow. And then I started realizing, well, I'm not necessarily stupid. Maybe I was just school stupid, right? And I started to kind of pivot away from that. really don't like to use that word.
But it was this kind of internalized message, right? And so I spent some time working at this school, which was the first school in the world for two e-kids. And, you know, through my journey there, like most people, you kind of look at someone else and realize more about yourself. Really went deep into the strength based world and thought, wow, you know, this is so magnificent. I was there for almost a decade. They started a research center and then a graduate school, and I went through there. And then I was going to
borrow one of my clients, one of the teachers from that school, we were going to start a little micro school where I live in Southern California and then the pandemic happened. So I kind of had this aha from a classmate from graduate school. And I thought, you know, what if we did this, like what we're doing at this school, strength-based education, just for an hour a day for kids that don't live in Los Angeles.
And then it kind of organically, like parents were reaching, hey, we have two wee cousins in Texas, or we have family in Florida. And then, you know, all of a sudden I was like, my goodness, like these kids are, and the parents were calling me like, you know, it was like six kids in the beginning. And you know, my son's made his first friend, can we exchange emails with the other mom? And can you help these people? And then it just kind of organically grew. And now, yeah, the whole mission is exactly what you said. It's just helping, you know, bright.
quirky kids focus even for just like that one hour a day, hopefully more, on their strengths, on their talents and their interests so that they don't feel school stupid, so that they feel really smart and brilliant and can be celebrated and be with their people.
Sarah Lovell (13:29)
That's such a like confidence booster. Like you like that self when you were talking about that, you know, even like that school stupid, like, like thought and feeling and like that phrase, like the things that we say to ourselves matter so much. And so like, if you've gotten that message over and over again in school, like that, you know, you're not good at this topic or your focus is like, you can't focus your attention, you know, whatever it is for that student, like it becomes like that internalized
message of, you know, that the challenges are what are showing up. And so I really appreciate that this community exists to not only, you know, help students learn in a different way and like in their strengths based way, but to like boost their confidence and like to show them that it's not, there's multiple ways to go about doing things.
Mr. Sam (14:23)
Yeah, and it's it's exponential. Like the earlier we have these kinds of interventions, the better. Right. Like I felt this as an adult and my friends and partner often very quick to say like, you're apologizing all the time. You know, and that's like, well, that's internalized because I was always really slow at things. Or I expect things to, you know, I have a lot of time with like I have a difficult time with like perceived time for tasks. And I always you know, I had virtually no life in school because
Sarah Lovell (14:30)
Thank
you
Mr. Sam (14:50)
I would just take me so long to go home and try to like force my focus. And so yeah, you deal with that every day. you know, I'm very privileged in many ways. I'm certainly not like unaware of that, but it is important. If we can intervene early and kind of mute the harmful voices for these kids, it's exponential. It makes a huge difference.
Sarah Lovell (15:12)
Cause I work with clients who like, as an executive function ADHD coach, I'm working with clients who are college and older. And for many of them, they probably like connect with what you're sharing, what these students, the journeys that these students have that your students go through. But my clients didn't have the resources and didn't have the tools. And so now they're like, okay, what can I do? How can I catch up quote unquote, or how can I...
Now that I know this about myself, now that I have language to describe these challenges that I'm experiencing, what can I do about it? How can I build on my strengths? So yeah, I want families to find you and your program so that they can start working on this, you know, when they're, how young are you? What's your age range? Wow, okay, okay. Mm-hmm, yep.
Mr. Sam (15:57)
Five to 18. And we have some parent classes too. We call them parent classes, but they're open to adults.
You just gave me a thought Sarah. I want to mention kind of sharing another aha that I had, which was, you know, so we know that these like bright kids and what you're talking about is like really where this aha came from. You have these students who are older and who have come up through this system have struggled in this way and have had the attention focused on their deficits, even if they have strengths that have been overshined by.
by deficits and struggles. I had this kind of other aha when I was in college and I was studying education and thinking, again, all the way had followed me. like, I don't know if I can be a, I wanted to be a history teacher. like, I don't know if I'm smart enough. I can't keep up with the reading. I had this amazing teacher who pulled me aside and gave me this amazing pep talk. But when I was in my pedagogy classes, I learned about executive function skills. And it was just this like.
I don't know how to describe it, almost like these two spheres overlapping and they separated. And I saw that there was intelligence or ability or potential, whatever we want to call it. And then there was like doing and executive function skills. And it was the first time that I felt bright because I realized you can be creative and curious and struggled to focus or initiate tasks. And it, this understanding was just
validating beyond any words I have the language to use. I really, when I started Young Scholars Academy, I was like, what if we gave that to young kids? What if we got 10 year olds? Hey, you're really bright and turning work in is gonna be challenging. Here's different X, Y, ways we can explore it.
Sarah Lovell (17:43)
Naming it is so powerful. Yeah, that's my, I love the aha and I'm also a visual thinker. So like the pulling apart of you can know like the content or like be bright in a particular topic or area and not have the skills or the executive function skills to do the thing or take action on it. Like the knowing and the doing are two totally different things sometimes. And so I think it's.
That's really powerful to be able to name that like you can, you know, be really bright and not have the tools yet to take action or do the things that you want to do or need to do.
Mr. Sam (18:24)
And just knowing the words. I have a hard time with processing speed, right? Like, I have a hard time with task initiation, right? That is like so different from I'm lazy or I don't like homework, right? It's like, actually you do like to work. I notice you're playing a lot of video games or you're skateboarding. know, like I notice you actually like to work and you like progress. It's just this one word is a hard thing.
Sarah Lovell (18:26)
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, naming it is really, really powerful. And so I know you're teaching or modeling executive function skills through interest-based classes. So can you talk a little bit about what that looks like? Because I think when people, I talk a lot about executive functioning, so anybody listening probably knows, but planning, organizing, time management, task initiation.
Mr. Sam (19:05)
Ha
Sarah Lovell (19:12)
All of those things are skills that we need throughout our entire lives and like definitely show up in a traditional learning program. But I know you're teaching kids and showing kids these skills through areas of their interests. So what does that look like and how, I mean, I can imagine, I I heard in the open house how engaged kids are in these programs, but what does that look
Mr. Sam (19:36)
So yeah, it's happening in sort two domains. One is sort of overtly, much similar to what you're doing, although not certainly on the level, not one-to-one, right? We're doing small group classes. And then the other one is covertly, which is sort of baked in. And that's the fun one I'll talk about both quickly. the one thing that I failed to mention earlier, which I want to talk about in both of these settings, because again, I want to differentiate. You're doing expert one-to-one, really custom tailored.
executive function work with later adolescents and young adults and adults. One of the things that we're really focused on is that humans are social creatures first and that most neurodivergent, especially twice exceptional people, are really struggling socially. So these kids have these, I say like they have these old brains and these young bodies. So you could have a kid who's...
there's an expression which is the 10, 15, 5 rule, which is like a 10 year old who's intellectually 15 and emotionally 5, right? Like they could be hanging out with high schoolers and talking about physics and then cry when they drop their ice cream. Right? And so you have this really complex profile and that makes it difficult for them to socialize because they're not talking about what other 10 year olds are talking about. And they're also not socializing with other kids who are, you know, their age as well. So it's
it wouldn't be appropriate for them to hang out with older, it wouldn't be appropriate for them to hang out with younger. And that's why all the research shows they need each other. one of the key ingredients is for anyone who feels like, as an adult, if you feel like, I don't really struggle, I don't really do well, I struggle socially, I don't have any friends, a lot of the times it's just that you are in the wrong environment. And so it seems like a non-sec order, but I promise it's connected. When we're talking about socializing,
that's also part of executive function skills, right? We're talking about wait time, working together, taking different perspectives, initiating, right? And so a lot of the stuff that we're doing is that sort of second group I mentioned, the covert. One great way we're doing it is like Dungeons and Dragons class, right? So you have six kids on a campaign. They have a mission. They have to listen to each other. They have to problem solve. They have to lay out all the options and talk through them and prioritize them. Try an error, right? So
Sarah Lovell (21:29)
yeah.
Mr. Sam (21:56)
That would be one way where it's sort of through a social lens. And then we also have like passion-based lenses. So we have a class, really like the backbone of our program is called a passion-based project fellowship class. And so this is a class where the kids are working on a 40 week project. So they're laying out, know, we had a student last year write a book, we've had a student make a mod to a video game and create a product line that was like satirical.
and make a solar oven. And the idea is, again, these are kids with big ideas, maybe kids who took apart vacuums or want to create a comic or whatever. And they struggle with the doing. So we have our teachers lay out, OK, here, let's look at this. This is the ideation phase. After the ideation phase, we're going to break this up into segments. This is called chunking. And then we're going to break these into milestones. so we're doing the work. We're doing it in a way where the student has the goal in mind.
We have a play coming up, we have my project coming up, we coding a robot. And we're just a little bit more obvious about the clues saying what we're doing and how it can translate to other parts of life.
Sarah Lovell (23:08)
That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. The social piece is obviously especially important to end that age too. Like I heard you say earlier, like someone saying I made my first friend, right? Like how so important, so, so important, not only for the social piece, but the confidence piece too. Cause if you're not confident in one area of your life or if that like deficit or challenges really weighing on you, it's going to be that much harder to.
to be able to build on your strengths. So to be able to start with that social piece, that community piece, that connection piece first and foremost, and especially over Zoom, like I said, in that like really engaging way where maybe people aren't able to get it in their towns, in their homes, but to be able to connect with people who share the same interests and hobbies and passions.
Mr. Sam (23:58)
And yesterday, I'll give you a great example. had, when families enroll, they join several classes. They also get like a, we have a social club. It's sort of like a homeroom at a brick and mortar school. We call it friendship social club or homeroom social club, depending on how old they are. And we had a student who came to the open house that you were at and met with our social club teacher, who's also our improv and theater teacher and creative writing teacher. And.
You know, he was saying, you know, I don't have any friends and I'm lonely. And then at the end of the social club yesterday, day one, the semester started yesterday. He said like, I think I made my first friend today. And they were bonding over, like they both built computers and, and, know, they just, these are kids who just talk at other people, right? And most people are just annoyed by that. And then finally someone just kind of like echoes back. And all of a sudden that's a conversation, right? And
have this beautiful back and forth. And then in that class is a kid from Norway who was staying up till like 11 o'clock at night. He's 12 years old. And his mom's like, this is his only social outlet. And so it's just like this really beautiful space. And I don't teach many classes. I still teach three classes. And one of my debate classes, I can't stop. I shouldn't teach anymore because it's hard to do everything. But I talk about executive function skills.
the kids have been together for like three and a half, four years. And the first day back yesterday, like, I missed you guys. How was your, and it's just so cool to see that. So I certainly don't wanna talk about Young Scholars Academy the whole time. think that any of what I'm saying happens anywhere, right? If you're finding opportunities for your kid to live in their strengths, if you're finding opportunities, and maybe it's a parent that's listening right now of a kid, I would say to you, please make sure.
you're thinking about where your attention is, and it's really easy. You're hearing constant deficits, right? What your kid isn't doing, where they're behind, they need a tutor here. And I would just encourage you to challenge, yes, that's valid, and also challenge it and see where your attention's going and where theirs is. And if you're an adult, this is you, I would ask yourself, where's your attention? And can you challenge it, even with just a sticky note? Like something like, I'm working on it, or, you know.
Sarah Lovell (26:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (26:18)
I like to do declarations and affirmations like I am a reader, you know, and it doesn't doesn't have to be actually that I read with my eyes. I read with my ears and I listen to books. But I think stepping into these little things can be really helpful.
Sarah Lovell (26:34)
firm believer that self talk is the foundation of our executive functioning, like and that, you know, that truly connects into our identity, like you just said, like identifying as a reader or identifying as a learner. And then the confidence piece too. So it's like you can have all the tools in your toolbox, but if your brain is telling you I'm lazy, or I'm always messy, or I'm always late, or always takes me too much time.
then it's gonna become so much harder to take action or do the thing or even like talk your way out of feeling that way. And I think there's so much power in community for that. Like when you see somebody else experiencing a challenge or, you know, working through it, like that you're quick to encourage them. And so like even being able to then not only encourage somebody else, but then turn that back.
and do some of that self-talk for yourself. And I think especially for students, to know I'm not the only one who's experiencing these exceptions. So yeah, I think the community piece really is so, so huge.
Mr. Sam (27:47)
Yeah, I call it the X and Y axis, you know, and I think, again, anyone who's not visual, I'm sorry. I should have apologized in advance.
Sarah Lovell (27:56)
That's okay. No, no,
I'm, that's, people know I'm like a visual storyteller on here. I'm like, I know you can't see me, but like I'm, yeah, so it's okay.
Mr. Sam (28:02)
Yeah, no, I think it's helpful.
I think disproportionately people in this space are often I don't know, I have any statistics to back this, but I would say are probably disproportionately more visual. I would say that I sort of thought of this. had this thought one day like, it's sort of like a graph. Right. And I think the recipe is that people need to look around as the X axis left and right. They need to see people like them like you're talking about. A lot of times when we're like advising and helping someone, it's really for us. Right.
Like, here's how I get started. It's just kind of you're reminding yourself, soothing. And that's huge. mean, especially for young kids, like we see, we had a girl who went from being like embarrassed about having autism or being autistic to bragging about it when someone else said that they were. you know, just that, that, that shift, right? You just see she didn't change. She just all of a sudden she was with people who are like her. And
the y-axis is that we need to look up. And this is true for adults too, right? Like I do this with, I just found out recently one of my favorite figures in all time is this guy, Laird Hamilton. He's this big wave surfer, kind of an icon. I'm a big surfer and I've always loved him my whole life. he, was like the first like self discovery book I ever read was like Laird Hamilton's, know, whatever. And I met him once and I just found out like that he's autistic. He has autism. And I'm like, no.
This is amazing. And he came out and spoke about being autistic, being bipolar. And I was like, wow, this is just so affirming to see someone. I'm not autistic. seeing someone who's in a similar space having this thing and then thinking the only reason he's as successful as he is is because he has this fixation, this focus. He maybe struggled socially. And it just felt like the sky's the limit. And I feel like when we can look left and right on that x-axis and when we can look up,
from kids to adults and see someone and realize, wow, like I can do anything. And that changes that negative self-talk you're talking about.
Sarah Lovell (30:03)
Yeah.
It changes the narrative. Yeah, even like the picture, like your visual and like the energy around it, like it can be the same story, but it's just read in a different way or it's painted in a different light. And so it like brings that, you know, validation. think that's like the theme so far of what we've been talking about today has been truly being validated in your experience, validated with the words that we're using and like validated in this community, like that you're not alone.
Mr. Sam (30:24)
Yeah.
And I think just pointing out the system in and of itself, like bringing, I would say the other big theme is awareness, right? That again, separating the intelligence or ability, et cetera, from doing and executive function skills. think another one for me, which I go back to all the time is that successful people have very little balance actually, right? The people that we at least praise, right? I'm not saying that we should live out of balanced lives, of course, although I do struggle with that.
I know when I think about people, we're obsessed with people who obsess, right? But in school we want kids to be well-rounded. And I always like to bring awareness to that fact that actually the kid who's like obsessed with something, I mean, that's probably gonna translate into some form of success if we let go of what we think they ought to or should be doing.
Sarah Lovell (31:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (31:33)
Right.
And, you know, anybody that, know, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, like these people had no balance in their lives. They only did one thing and they did it a lot. And when you see your kid doing one thing, it might be playing Minecraft or if you're an adult and you're like, I'm on Reddit too much. It's like that that obsession could be a good thing, actually. Right. And if we can focus it in something, if you can identify a problem that you want to solve or people whom you want to help, maybe we don't need to like
Sarah Lovell (31:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (32:02)
change or fix anything. We just need to redirect and maybe we can do something pretty amazing.
Sarah Lovell (32:09)
I love that. Yeah, being able to even just reframe it because again, it comes down to words like your yeah, you're obsessed with Minecraft. But like what does that you know, what can you pull out of that? How what are you? You know, what are the strengths that you can pull from there? What are the parallels you can pull from there? If your brain wants to put all the time and energy into I don't know a lot about Minecraft building, I think right? Like, what does that then translate to? And I think like
Mr. Sam (32:31)
Mm-mm.
Sarah Lovell (32:36)
Anytime we hear a should, we have to challenge that thought. Like, oh, you should be spending time somewhere else, or you should be putting energy in other things. It's like, well, any shoulds should be challenged. But I love that idea of like, if somebody is putting time and energy into something that this is to build that up, and then pull out those strengths into other transferable things too, like, but really let them hone in on that strength.
Mr. Sam (32:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a lot of the times, and I say this a lot when I talk to parents, a lot of times the thing that people are looking for, and this is true of individuals, as well as parents talk with their kids, the thing that we're looking for, that we wish would happen, is happening in a place we haven't looked. The kid with ADHD who isn't paying attention and can't focus is spending five hours on YouTube, learning everything there is to know about.
the development of submarines from the beginning of World War I to the end, right? Whatever it is like, that's a big deal. Like this kid's doing college level research and we just thought it was like, they're online all the time, right? And it's true with adults. Like you might be, I used to just get lost in like mechanics. I would just take stuff apart and then I wouldn't have a car. And I was like, I have to take an Uber someplace. like that ability to like take something part and just like, I don't know, figure it out.
Sarah Lovell (33:32)
Yep.
Mr. Sam (33:57)
that helped me build the confidence to start a program. Cause I'm like, well, I can do anything, you know, and I'll figure it out when I get there like that. It definitely caused me. And if you ask my wife, she's like, my daily driver is a 1956 Chevy truck that like broke yesterday and breaks every day. And she's like, you gotta get a regular car. And I'm like, I just love it, you know, but that same, that same like density and you know, other people might use other words has also given me, I think the ability to do the things I have to.
Sarah Lovell (34:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, like problem solving in an area that you love where your brain can get into a, like get into truly a flow, like hyper-focus or flow. And then it's like, that's a data point that your brain can problem solve hard things in different settings. And so then again, that self-talk piece of, if I can do it here, I can do it over in this other area of life. And maybe there's more discomfort tolerance that I have to work through because it's not an area of specialty or it's not an area of...
like high dopamine, but being able to look at, I can do it over here in this one area where I put all this time and effort and energy, and that's transferable to every other area in life, basically. Like that executive functioning carries over. So what does, go ahead.
Mr. Sam (35:12)
Yeah.
No, I just want to say I like that idea. Like it's sort of a case studies, right? Where you're like, again, going back to the sticky note thing, it's like you just write down what you've done. And then when you get stuck in that negative, I'm the first to say that I struggle with this all the time, you even writing goals. like, I am this. I'm going to be this. And I'm all right. I'm going to be this or I'm working on this. My wife's like, no, write it like it's now, you know, and it's just these little.
Changes, know, if you've done something well, you can document it Of course that takes a lot of executive function skills right to think in the moment Let me record this for the future right but then you can challenge those limiting beliefs and it starts with just a sticky note or reminder or picture of something and it might snowball into something that like actually Knocks down some of those limiting beliefs and also is differentiation right like I another kind of joke is we were just we took a family trip to Disney World over the over the holidays and every time you know
Sarah Lovell (35:48)
Right.
Mr. Sam (36:10)
parks her like a lot, right? And so anytime we would look for something, my wife's very like research. She says she opens her phone, she's on Reddit and I've never even had the Disney app open or anything. I'm just very much, again, I'm dyslexic. have ADHD. Like I've always just been able to compensate and mask my struggles with conversation. So, you know, go up to a person and like get directions and I can't remember all the steps, but I can just get to the next person and I always get us where we need to go. And it's just like.
Sarah Lovell (36:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (36:39)
That's a compensatory strategy that I've developed. I should be better at reading and doing these things, but that works for me. And I think in the day and age that we live in now with all these incredible tools, AI, taking speech to text, it's really a lot easier for people, I hope, to overcome some of those limiting beliefs by using different pathways or different tools and resources.
Sarah Lovell (37:04)
Yeah, I was just talking to a client about that exact thing the other day, like that there is no one right way to do something. Or like just because the majority of people do it a certain way, if that doesn't work for you, then that's not the right way for you to do it. Like nothing is wrong with you. Like the the tool or the system that you're using doesn't work for you. So the right tool or system is whatever works for you. And
Mr. Sam (37:31)
Right? And that's
again, like that's who we celebrate, right? It's like, think about explorers. It's like, you found a new way to get to this place. They didn't invent anything. They just found a different way or, you know, the washing machine. Like, yeah, people were washing their clothes before. We just found a new way to do it. Right. And so we celebrate these things historically and culturally, but we we punish them a lot of the times in academia because I think academics are too focused on how
Sarah Lovell (37:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (38:01)
and they're not focused on the what. For me, when I hire people, I don't want to be a part of how you get it done. It doesn't really matter to me. As long as it's efficient and as long as you can replicate it and maybe other people can understand it, then great. If that works for you, then awesome.
Sarah Lovell (38:18)
Yeah, your
journey, your journey can look different. Yeah, yeah, as long as as long as you get to where you need to get to. So what does what does the journey look like for young scholar Academy students when they're like, graduating? Is that or like when they're when they're kind of like, ending their time in the program, like, graduating out aging out, whatever the term would be? What what does life look like afterwards? Because it sounds like they're
Mr. Sam (38:39)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Sarah Lovell (38:46)
They're building not only that sense of community, building their confidence, like the executive function skills through, you know, interspace classes, through, you know, all these different social opportunities. What's next? What comes after that for them?
Mr. Sam (39:01)
Yeah, you know, as a, we're ultimately like an extension program, right? So we have families who are with us an hour a day. We have families who are with us five hours a day. And so really a lot of it depends on what they're doing with their other time. We have a sort of culminating class. It's one of the last classes I still teach. It's called adulting and thriving. And the whole, I've had this class for like 15 years and my students used to jokingly call it like senior seminar, which I still love.
Sarah Lovell (39:05)
Mm-hmm.
Love it.
Mr. Sam (39:29)
And the whole focus of it is talking about the stuff that doesn't get talked about. So it starts with deep ideation of Simon Sinek, start with why, what's your whole internal driver, what's your personal legend. And then we sort of forge forward. Then we go into the actual executive function. We talk about task management systems. OK, now you know your why and your what. And let's figure out how are you going to develop the tools to get the stuff done.
And then we go into like other skills, know, finance and socializing, making friends in college, all the accommodations and stuff. But so some students will take that path. And I think that's different. But for the most part, I mean, the big hope is that the kids walk away with friends. They walk away with with the community of people and they walk away with the confidence.
that they've really grown as themselves. They can see their own strength. They've had attention trained on it and adults focusing on it. And that they walk away with some kind of vision, right? A belief in that they have a direction or calling, at least a big interest. Some students will take a gap year. Some students will go into the workforce. Some students will go to community college or go to college. It really depends. I'm seeing fewer and fewer students go right into four year.
schools, which I think is good thing for a lot of these students who, again, they have that asynchronous development. they're just because you hit 18, they're not ready. it's really, they say, once you've met a twice exceptional person, you've met a twice exceptional person, right? So we have like 360 students. I would say so many of them are in different trajectories. But generally speaking, I think those are the big three is that we hope that they leave with friends, with confidence, and some kind of vision.
Sarah Lovell (41:06)
Yes.
Mr. Sam (41:20)
or eye toward their future, at least a strong passion.
Sarah Lovell (41:23)
It's such a beautiful launching pad. that those, I mean, that's what I hope all students have, like regardless of their path, but like that you've created this community and truly this just like amazing, amazing foundation for students to build friends, confidence, skills, and then move forward into, into whatever path works for them. Cause again, there's no, no one right path. And I'm also glad to hear that more students are taking a break.
or taking a gap year or not going right into a four-year school, because I tend to work with the college students who've gone right through and I'm like, I'm seeing the other end. And so yeah, I think that's wonderful that there's more of a focus on becoming who you are and building those strengths and coming up with systems that work for you so that you can go on whatever path is next. That's absolutely beautiful.
Mr. Sam (41:58)
Mm-hmm. You're seeing the other end,
And I think, you know, playing devil's advocate, having, you know, the Sarah's of the world, like having you there to guide people, because some people are ready intellectually, they're craving that, right? And they need the scaffolding and they need the support. And so essentially, you know, you're granting people access to things that that they require. Right. And and you're giving them the tools almost like I picture like an old school diver with the
the long oxygen line, before they had tanks, like you're kind like running the line down so they can go deeper and stay breathing. And I think, yeah, you should use that in your marketing.
Sarah Lovell (42:50)
Mm-hmm.
that is, god, sorry. I'm going to, I'm gonna
steal that. That's a great visual. Yes, I provide oxygen so you can go deeper. Yeah. No, it is, it's, cause a lot of the students I'm working with are extremely, extremely bright and they were able to get through high school and then college is a different beast with independence and life skills and more freedom. And so then how do you...
Mr. Sam (43:04)
Yeah.
Sarah Lovell (43:24)
do the executive functioning side of school. When you can learn the content pretty, like it comes to them pretty naturally. Or even going into a career where it's like, you know, can, you know, be an expert in your field, but the time management piece is a challenge. So I think it's so great that one, more and more people are talking about executive functioning. People are like, you know, learning about 2E if that's new to them.
Mr. Sam (43:28)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Lovell (43:53)
learning about language that's supportive so that they can get the resources and tools at whatever phase of life they're in. So even for people listening to this podcast, if you're an adult and you're like, wait, I was that student, but I just didn't have those connections, now being able to learn about that, listen to more podcasts, read and connect with other people. Because again, I think it truly does come down to knowing that you're not alone with your experience and knowing, yeah.
Mr. Sam (44:23)
I think in bursting the balloon, like I'll be the first, you people use the term like expert and all these things, you know, when you speak at enough events. And man, I like to like air out my laundry, you know, I'm like every day I make an unrealistic list to do and I'm disappointed, you know, and I recently, have like a co-op with a friend where we sort of take turns coaching each other. He has an executive function in business. I have Young Scholars Academy.
And we're always talking. He's like, man, you know, have you ever thought about working with an executive function coach? And I'm like, why'd I never think of it? You know, like you were all, we're all going through it. And I think it's important to just realize that, you know, I had a great psychologist once say to me like, Hey, you know, you have anxiety and ADHD and these are not going anywhere. So just like put your arms around them. Right. And I think that it's important to, yeah, kind of burst that bubble. I certainly don't have it all figured out. I struggle.
Sarah Lovell (44:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Sam (45:17)
I built these systems because I struggle and because I've taken a great interest in how my brain works. I think whatever anyone does, you as long as you're focusing on what you're doing well and building in that space, it's just, it's gonna be more fruitful. It doesn't mean we don't have to, you know, I'm only gonna focus on what I'm good at, but you know, focusing on the strong, the good, the interest when we can, and then having that sort of be like.
sort of raising the roof and then the sort of floor comes with it, right? Versus trying to focus on pulling the floor up.
Sarah Lovell (45:52)
Yeah, I love that visual. I talk about it being a practice. We're constantly practicing. Doctors practice, lawyers practice. When you do yoga, it's a practice. You're never perfecting anything or you're never like, nothing will ever be perfect. And I'm the same, Sam. My to-do list, even as an executive function coach, my to-do list is unrealistic. And so my practice is challenging that and saying, okay.
I don't have enough hours in the day for that, or I don't have enough energy in the day for that. So I'm constantly practicing my systems. I'm constantly practicing my self-talk. Like it's never actualized. Yeah.
Mr. Sam (46:28)
Yeah, it's tough. And I think
that's a great way to think of it. I really like that, that, you know, we're working on being more flexible or we're working on, you know, and again, like going back to, you know, tools, right? Like having someone like you in someone's corner and discovering something like, again, this is one of my greatest struggles is this. And I'm really good at helping kids with this. Of course, I don't always take my own medicine.
But you know learning things like a fudge ratio like hey every day you're about 50 % off with your time estimate So let's multiply you know by 1.5. How long you thought this would take like like just learning different skills like that at a very young age You know whatever Pomodoro timers, you know little things like little interventions like that can be life-changing and And then I think what you just did it was like being vulnerable and sharing like hey, I'm working on it, too and it lets lets that gap close between
you and your clients.
Sarah Lovell (47:26)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's an imp... I wish the world were more like that. Like the people felt more comfortable talking about challenges and things they're working on. And I think that's a lot of my clients come in and they're like, I thought I was the only one who struggled with this because nobody's out there talking about the daily challenges. So I love that you've created this community where students and families, mean, parents too, like everybody gets this like, you know.
We're all in this together and this is what we're working on. So I want to be mindful of your time and I want to wrap up with maybe something that's too big of a question so you can tell me if this is not, maybe this is a whole other podcast episode. But if you had a magic wand and you could take some of the amazing features of Young Scholars Academy and integrate them into the greater world, like schools, colleges, the workplace, our social
Mr. Sam (47:56)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Lovell (48:25)
settings and communities, what would you want to see change added, taken away, whatever.
Mr. Sam (48:32)
Yeah, one of our founding moms, very first year, coined this term called the YSA glow. And she said, anytime my son Simon, her son Simon, takes a class, he's euphoric for 24 hours. And she said, you if we just do one every other day, it gets him through the week. I, well, what is that? You know, and I sat down and I called her and she said, well, the thing is that he's with his people. He's doing what he loves. No one's saying no to him.
They're asking why. And it's just the most affirming thing. So I feel like I've seen that times, you know, a lot. And if we can have space each day to do those things, to explore our interests, to go deep without judgment, to be with our people, and just to, yeah, chase some rigor and do some things that like
that thing that keeps you up or gets you up early in the morning, like just dive into it. I think that that is so fulfilling. And a lot of the times like adults later in life get it, they don't like being told what to do. They like being an expert and outsourcing things they're bad at. I think granting anyone that and especially kids that and doing it early and doing it often, making that a part of it. You talk about practice like a daily practice to do like strength-based talent and interest-driven exploration.
the need to produce or get grades or just go.
Sarah Lovell (50:06)
just for, yeah, for enjoyment and growth. And I love that. The world needs more of that. So thank you so much, Sam. How can people connect with you? How can they learn about YSA? And I'll put all of this in the show notes as well.
Mr. Sam (50:22)
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, the best place is just to go to our site, youngscholarsacademy.org. If you want to head there, you can get contact info, you can see our socials, and most importantly, you can explore, you know, joining our community. So we run, you know, all fall and all spring courses. They run about 20 weeks each semester, and many of them are rolling. So you can hop in and, you know, find a group, whether you're a parent or kiddo, and, you know, get to know the folks, travel with the folks class to class.
and be a part of our virtual village. So it's youngscholarsacademy.org.
Sarah Lovell (50:57)
Thank you so much, Sam.
Mr. Sam (50:59)
Thank you, Sarah. This was awesome.
Sarah Lovell (51:01)
is a lot of fun. All let me hit pause.
